Re: Jesus Christ is Our Infallible Proof

Sometimes Christians write postings and close the comments, which I find a pretty cowardly attitude. If they were so sure, no comment could harm their argument. In some of this cases, I simply use the nice possibility of a ping-back to make a reply, like in this case

First of all, he acknowledges, that the whole Jesus-Christ-God-Grace thing sounds really far-fetched to non Christians. He makes the point that (to non Christians) Jesus was „only“ a great moral teacher to them (which is correct, at least in the way he uses it, by comparing him to Buddha, Confucius or Mohammed – they all had some good points, but were far from perfect).

He continues with the story from the cross and correctly shows us that the death of Jesus can be simply seen as the roman execution of a revolutionary.

But then he starts to bring up the problem: For the Christians, this all was a great big show, everything was planned, everything worked out fine, Jesus died for our sins, etc.etc. But honestly, I see two stories unfold here…

The first one is the Christian one: At the end, Jesus seems to be dead, but suddenly, all the lights go on and there he is, on the center of the stage, kissing his assistant and proving that he’s really the greatest magician of all times (as the prophecies foretold). He is god, etc.etc.

The second one is not as glorious – but much more human: Jesus died. And his followers go into shock. How could that be? They invested so much energy and emotions into the whole thing, surely that wasn’t all for nothing? So, perhaps… Yes, surely… There MUST be another explanation. He can’t be dead. Really, he CAN’T! So he must be alive. Yes, he was not defeated, but his death was the defeat of his enemies! HAHA! Yes, that’s it. We can see the same thing going on today, it’s really hard to let go of an idea that you have invested much energy into. And then the shoehorning begins, pressing everything into vague old texts, to be able to claim that everything was foretold. Honestly, I don’t even think that the people really lied – they really wanted it to be true and believed it themselves. It doesn’t take much to let you believe anything – you just need to WANT to believe it.

And in the end? The only thing left are some books, written by people who didn’t witness the things themselves and really, really wanted to believe them. And this is supposed to be „proof“?

Finally, the Armchair Apologist makes the following statement…

„There are many who will say that Christians base their faith on no proof. But this is not true. Scripture declares that it is based on ‘many infallible proofs’“

So, expect me to write a book in which I claim the book is based on ‚many infallible proofs‘ and collect much money from him. According to him, claiming that the book is proven should be enough to make it true, no? Honestly, the bible is true because the bible says so? This is your proof? For Christians, this may make sense: They believe the bible is true, so if the bible say so, it’s even more so. But for non Christians, a book claiming that it’s true is not very convincing…


11 Kommentare zu “Re: Jesus Christ is Our Infallible Proof

  1. The Bible’s claim that it speaks the truth is simply one witness to its contents.

    We want to hear from it; that is, Does it claim to speak the truth? If it did not, why give it credibility? Someone could simply say it is not a true history. And the Bible could say in return, it never claimed to be the truth. Yet, if it claims to speak the truth, we have to investigate its claims. It is the latter that has happened. It claims to be the truth, therefore, we listen to it speak to see whether it is or not.

    • So if I feel love for, let’s say, Wonder Woman, this would be proof that Wonder Woman really exists? Sorry, but no. You may not need a proof for love, but love itself is not a proof for the thing loved. Same thing with belief – I would never try to argue that you don’t really believe (that’s something, some Christians do, by claiming to know better than me what I feel/believe) – but that belief is not proof for god/jesus/whoever.

  2. I do agree with you on some points! But, there are believers* and believers**. A real believer* and follower of Jesus Christ will never argue that they are better than you. A real believer will respect you and love you for who you are despite the differences. God tells us to love one another and where is love there is no place for hate. There are people** out there who claim to be Christians** and all they do is hate and judge others (I’ve met them myself) and that is not the way!

    • Unfortunately, „real believer“ just means „something who believes the same things as me“. There is no definition for it and your holy books allows you to claim that you are right as well as it does allow that to other people, simply because it was written by humans – and not in a very clear way, allowing myriads of interpretation without making clear which one is true.

  3. I agree that it is cowardly to not allow comments. They know they are not prepared to handle those who refute their claims and so they don’t even allow them to do so. I also noticed that the blog that you linked to has been deleted.

    „Honestly, the bible is true because the bible says so? This is your proof? For Christians, this may make sense: They believe the bible is true, so if the bible say so, it’s even more so. But for non Christians, a book claiming that it’s true is not very convincing…“

    That is the only „proof“ I ever saw too. Considering that there is nothing written in the bible that actually says the bible is true, their claim is false. Aside from that, it is irrelevant because of the contradictions and lack of moral teaching in the bible. I admit that one can find some good moral teaching in some of the bible if they carefully pick them out, but it is too much trouble. I decided it was better to come up with my own morality than to pick it out from the writings of unknown authors.

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